In a recent episode, renowned biologist Richard Dawkins engaged in a controversial conversation with Helen Joyce, author of “Trans: When Ideology Meets Reality.” Here’s the full story.
The discussion centered on the concept of sex as binary and the challenges posed by the evolving gender ideology.
Dawkins’s Stance on Sex
During their conversation, Dawkins reaffirmed his stance that sex is indeed a binary concept.
He said, “Sex really is binary. You’re either male or female, and it’s absolutely clear you can do it on gamete size. You can do it on chromosomes. To me, as a biologist, it’s distinctly weird people can simply declare “I am a woman though I have a p***s.””
Dawkins posed the question to Helen Joyce about the underlying reasons for what he termed the “odd distortion of reality.”
Joyce acknowledged that gender ideology was being treated differently compared to other topics.
Her initial engagement with the subject made her realize the unique nature of the discussions surrounding the self-identification of gender.
As Joyce delved deeper into her understanding of the topic, she shared the linguistic aspect of the gender identity movement.
It’s a Matter of Self-Declaration
She emphasized that becoming a different gender, according to this ideology, is a linguistic transformation – a matter of self-declaration.
People Would Call Me a Bigot
Joyce said, “Just asking various obvious questions like ‘don’t you think that if we allow people to self-identify their sex this will lead to, for example, destroying women’s sports or putting rapists in women’s jails?’
People would turn this back on me and say ‘You think that trans people are predators.’ Or do you think trans people are in bad faith? You’re a bigot.’ And I hadn’t experienced that before in about 14 years as a journalist.”
Both Share the Same Belief
“Most trans people don’t have any operations, don’t take any medicine, don’t have any genital surgery. But that doesn’t change your sex,” she added.
A Momentum Shift
Joyce suggested that society’s shift toward breaking away from traditional norms and categories could be driving the momentum behind the gender identity movement.
Dawkins also raised concerns about the reinforcement of gender stereotypes within the transgender movement.
He expressed his opposition to the stereotypical association of pink with girls and blue with boys, emphasizing that such associations can perpetuate harmful gender norms.
While Dawkins indicated his willingness to respect individuals’ preferred pronouns, he emphasized his refusal to refer to biological men as women.
He firmly stated, “To say ‘I am a woman’ is a debauchery of language and that’s where I draw the line.”
Social Media Users Shared Their Views
Several social media users expressed their thoughts on the incident.
One Twitter user wrote, “Neil deGrasse Tyson, an astrophysicist, says X and Y chromosomes are “insufficient.” Richard Dawkins, an evolutionary biologist, says sex is binary. Who is more qualified to speak on this subject?”
Another User wrote, “We don’t have kids look at their own chromosomes in school anymore because too many figured out they have an intersex condition.”
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Featured Image Credit: Shutterstock / Al Teich. The people shown in the images are for illustrative purposes only, not the actual people featured in the story.